Payoneer Card Money Stolen from ATM :-(

dcmdcm Member Posts: 10
So I noticed the fraud on the 20th April 2013 - I went to withdraw some funds in my home town as I usually do and the machine said to me insufficient funds. But I was certain I had funds so I logged into my payoneer account to see a TON of transactions from ATMS which I did not do which I now calculated to total $3486.99 ATM withdrawals - Now I am totally upset because this is a lot of money for me.
 
Now the only thing I can recall is I went to a theme park on the 15th and used one of their cash machines and it would not give me any funds, so I had to wait and find another cash machine in the theme park which was working - So I can only presume that that cash machine had been compromised by fraudsters. I told the customer service team at the theme park that the cash machine was not giving me funds and they said it was playing up for a couple of days. 
 
As I explained to your customer support team - I don't understand how the fraudster has managed to withdraw my money from an ATM because I still have the card that you just blocked for me, the only thing I can presume is they have somehow cloned my card and withdrawn my money. You will clearly see with your checks that this was not done by my card as I still have it and I hope you have CCTV in place to catch the crook and jail them!.

 

I have just submitted all of the documentation you needed to make a fraud claim, which took me hours as need to fill out a form for each transaction and there were 28 of them!

 

Now I ordered a new card by DHL can you make sure this is sent to me promptly and also can you make sure my claim goes through quickly as I really hope and wish I can get my money back as I am devastated I have been targeted by fraudsters. Does this happen a lot with payoneer cards? Are they easy to clone? Would it not be safer for the cards to contain chip and pin?

Comments

  • TristanPTristanP Member Posts: 49 ✭✭

    Copying the magnetic stripe is indeed quite easy. Magnetic stripes usually consist of 2 tracks, which each store information such as the expiration date and primary account number. (Sometimes there's a third track, but often not and even if there is, you actually only need one track after all.) They are easily read, which is one of the key features of the magnetic stripe.

     

    Magnetic stripe cards may be read with pretty much every magnetic stripe reader available on the market. If you solder a magstripe reader together with a cheap programmable controller and battery you have a very neat skimming device for only a couple of dollars, . (Strange enough some people pay up to $ 500,- for a ready made one, like the MSRv008.) If wanted you can also buy bezels which fits perfect over existing anti-skimming bezels. After you've read a card you can easily write the dump on another magnetic stripe, if you have a writer/encoder. (which are widely available for the mass as well.) You might even start a little factory with a refurbished Fargo PVC card printer with build-in encoder and an embossing machine.

     

    Since the PIN is usually not stored in the magnetic stripe of a card you need to record it separately. This is usually done with either a pinhole camera or a keypad which stores keystrokes. Unless you want to use Mastercard + signature or want to steal PINs, that is. (Which sometimes are actually stored, despite network regulations.) Although banks sometimes tells how shitty a ATM might look after there's tampered with, they actually look more decent sometimes.

     

    This all doesn't in particular often happen with Payoneer cards, but more with swipe cards in general. For that reason as well as interoperability and a couple of other factors Europay, Mastercard and Visa started developing EMV. By it's nature (or perhaps just it's form) more difficult to skim, but with some serious design flaws.  Looking at the increasing amount of electronic transactions and growing range of payment terminals, including mobile phones, not a great long term solution, if you ask me. Not unlikely EMV wil be prone to a lot of MitM attacks in the near future.

     

    Good luck with your fraud claim. I'll hope to read a positive update soon from you.

  • dcmdcm Member Posts: 10

    Thanks well 2CO have sent the forms to the chargeback department today, lets hope theres some good news soon as I feel sick that someone has stolen $3k+ from me

     

    They used about 8+ different ATMs from what I can see, so there MUST be CCTV on at least one of these so they can locate and jail the darn fraudster!

  • dcmdcm Member Posts: 10
    Just an update payoneer have said that the dispute has been filed and can expect a decision around 90 days

    A little dissapointed that I have to wait that long due to no fault of my own. Now I am out of pocket and have to wait 3 months for a decision.

    Surely they can see within a week that a cloned card was used or check CCTV or something.

    Will keep this updated with any progress or changes.

    Payoneer if you are reading this please try to hurry things along as this is not a small amount that has been stolen from me.
  • mlbmlb Member Posts: 10
    dcm wrote on April 21 2013, 8:46 PM: »
    Does this happen a lot with payoneer cards? Are they easy to clone? Would it not be safer for the cards to contain chip and pin?

     

     

    Sorry to hear about the fraud.  It happened with my card, too.  I agree it would be safer to have a card with a chip and pin.

  • dcmdcm Member Posts: 10
    mlb wrote on April 25 2013, 1:03 PM: »

    Sorry to hear about the fraud.  It happened with my card, too.  I agree it would be safer to have a card with a chip and pin.

     

    Sorry to hear that

     

    Did you get your funds back that were stolen? How long did it take? I am really hoping it does not take the full 90 days to receive a reply as its not a small amount of money here.

  • mlbmlb Member Posts: 10
    dcm wrote on April 25 2013, 1:28 PM: »

    Sorry to hear that

     

    Did you get your funds back that were stolen? How long did it take? I am really hoping it does not take the full 90 days to receive a reply as its not a small amount of money here.

     

    Mine wasn't a small amount of money either...it definitely sucks.  I just hope it will be obvious that the claims are fraudulent as the spending pattern (8 sales in a short period of time) and the purchases themselves are completely out of the ordinary.  I haven't had a response to my claim yet; I submitted it about a month ago.

  • NissimNissim Head of Community Administrator Posts: 3,604 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2013

    I just wanted to add in that Payoneer takes unauthorized activity very seriously, and we will do everything we can to assist in resolving the issue.

     

    There are strict regulations and procedures that must be followed relating to disputing charges, which is why it can take up to 90 days. While we do understand the urgency of this issue, however as a fully regulated US company and must follow these procedures.

  • dcmdcm Member Posts: 10
    edited April 2013
    Nissim wrote on April 26 2013, 4:45 PM: »

    I just wanted to add in that Payoneer takes unauthorized activity very seriously, and we will do everything we can to assist in resolving the issue.

     

    There are strict regulations and procedures that must be followed relating to disputing charges, which is why it can take up to 90 days. While we do understand the urgency of this issue, however as a fully regulated US company and must follow these procedures.

     

    Thanks, lets just hopes this gets resolved quickly and effectively 

     

    BTW I received my new card really fast so thanks for that

  • dcmdcm Member Posts: 10

    So it has now gone over 90 days and to be honest I am quite upset!

     

    I have been contacting payoneer support everyday this week to see what is happening with my claim... It is now way past 90 days and I still have not had one reply I have contacted you ALL week and not been contacted back, I was promised a phone call today and it never happened - I just want my money back that got stolen.. I have been very patient waiting 90 days but its really taking the mickey now as its a lot of money to me - And all I get when I phone up is someone will write to you or call you and it NEVER happens

     

    Why is this process stretching more then 90 days?

     

    @mlb - Did you get your money back? As I am really feeling anxious now

  • RomiRomi Community Manager Member Posts: 2,542 ✭✭✭

    Hey - I see you've received an email that our chargeback department has informed us that we should have an answer for you within one more week. I'm sorry for the long time it's taking and appreciate your patience.

    Romi

    Community Manager at Payoneer


    Find us on Facebook & Twitter

  • dcmdcm Member Posts: 10

    Its now been a week... and still not heard anything.. Contacted support again to be told someone will get back to me

     

    This is getting ridiculous now! I just want my money back that got stolen!

  • RomiRomi Community Manager Member Posts: 2,542 ✭✭✭

    Hey - I'm really sorry for the delay. I see that the chargeback department has received a note today regarding your dispute. Please allow 24-48 hours more to be contacted (could be postponed a bit due to the upcoming weekend).

    Romi

    Community Manager at Payoneer


    Find us on Facebook & Twitter

  • dcmdcm Member Posts: 10

    What note? Can you just let me know via PM or something

     

    You would think that mastercard should of resolved this ages ago... All they have to do is look at some CCTV or something to catch the fraudsters

  • dcmdcm Member Posts: 10
    edited August 2013

    So, I have received a reply finally from payoneer today and I am absolutely fuming that the blame is trying to be put on me - When I have CLEARLY been a victim of card fraud - Its absolutely ridiculous the two reasons I was given was

     

    “Tell us AT ONCE if you believe your Card has been lost or stolen. Telephoning toll-free at 1-800-251-2521 is the best way of keeping your possible losses down. To the extent permitted by applicable law, we are not responsible for lost or stolen Cards or any unauthorized transactions made with the Card." This section reflects Payoneer’s policy regarding transactions posted to compromised or stolen cards.

     

     

    Well my card was NOT lost or stolen - I still have the card and you would know that if you even bothered to read what I wrote! Someone cloned my card and I reported it to you as soon as I saw the transactions.

     

     

     

    I do not even have a clue what this means! I do not care about terms or if they used my pin.. I have been a victim of fraud! And I am not being protected...

     

    They have offered me $1k as a good will gesture... Good will? What the heck does good will have to do with it? I don't want anything from you! I want my money back that got stolen and which I trusted payoneer and mastercard to protect me from fraud.

     

    This seriously must be illegal? I have done nothing wrong yet I am losing out.

  • dcmdcm Member Posts: 10

    So the hole gets even deeper!

     

    I just called Payoneer only to be confronted with rudeness by the team

     

    I spoke to someone called Jenny a so called supervisor 

     

    She would not give me her surname and she also said she is not allowed to tell me who payoneer are regulated by and a contact number for them... This is actually against the law! Why would she not give me this information

     

    Clearly there is something to hide here.

     

    I have been declined a claim on the basis of the team trying to use loopholes and put the blame on the card holder - When infact none of the terms they declined my claim for are valid ones, they just made them up and then chucked a $1k good will gesture at me with statements such as 

     

    6. I shall indemnify and hold Payoneer harmless from and against any losses and expenses incurred by Payoneer in the event that I initiate any claim against Payoneer or against any of its corporate affiliates with respect to the Dispute.

    7. To the full extent permitted by law, I hereby confirm that I will not initiate, prosecute, or maintain any legal claim, or proceeding of any kind or nature whatsoever, against Payoneer, related in any way to my dispute.

     

     

    Clearly offering me a good will gesture to try and protect their backs, as they know my claim is valid.

     

    Does anyone know the regulatory bodies they are moderated by? I want to go down that avenue before I go to claims court... I will also bring a long my so called "lost or stolen" card so the court can see it was cloned and payoneers arguments are not valid.

  • RomiRomi Community Manager Member Posts: 2,542 ✭✭✭

    Hi,

    I'm sorry you had a bad experience with our customer support department.

    I have been in contact with the relevant department regarding your dispute and they are doing all they can to check, again, your claims and the details of this issue. The dispute is not yet closed and you will receive a final notification when it is.

     

    I'll be happy to continue assisting you privately.

     

    Thank you.

    Romi

    Community Manager at Payoneer


    Find us on Facebook & Twitter

  • sibsoftsibsoft Member Posts: 0
    dcm, sorry for bumping old thread, but how your case was solved?
  • ElvenNinjaElvenNinja Member Posts: 5
    Yeah I'm curious too, what exactly happened here?
  • rocco7313rocco7313 Member Posts: 2
    Hello I do have a Payoneer account just now and one of my customer paid me...

    Payment was done 8 days ago and money is still on hold...

    customer told me that his bank paid already to Payoneer and Payoneer
    just sent me an email that says.


    Dear Juan Garcia,
    A payment sent to you is currently on hold.
    Payment ID 29125321
    Sent By [email protected]
    Amount 1000.00
    We have asked the payer to verify their identity by providing further documentation. In the event that the payer does not provide documentation within 7 business days, the payment will be rejected.
    If you have any questions, please feel free to contact us.



    Thank you,The Payoneer Team



    WHAT IS THAT ? WHAT COMPANY ASK FOR ID, PASSPORT, DRIVER LICENCE ?

    PLEASE, GIVE ME AN ANSWER, OTHER WISE WILL HAVE TO INFORM CUSTOMER
    ABOUT THIS, ABOUT DOING A CHARGEBACK AND I WILL POST ON THE INTERNET
    OF THIS ACTIONS.

    YOU CONTACT ME OR I WILL POST OVER THE INTERNET ABOUT YOU.
  • medy36medy36 Member Posts: 2
    Hi everyone,

    My card was cloned 3 days ago, they stole all my money more then 4500$. am actually in vacation in Indonesia and i have nothing left only few local money. i am in a really bad situation and about to loose my mind. i have sent a claim about this, it's Sunday so i guess i will wait for the next days to get a response.

    After reading all the thread i guess i will not see my money and they will propose me 1000$ after months ( 3 to 4 months).

    If there is anything to do, please help my guys am really F***
  • Adam_PayoneerAdam_Payoneer Administrator Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Being a victim of a crime is not a pleasant experience to say the least.
    Every dispute that is filed is reviewed and handled carefully by Payoneer through MasterCard, the banks and processors involved in the transactions in question.

    Payoneer always aims for a succesful resolution for every case and will provide with a hasty and positive response as soon as humanly possible.

    it is important to follow the instructions by Payoneer's support and chargeback representatives in order to ensure that your cases are handled efficiently and as quickly as possible to avoid any prolonged handling with your individual cases.

    Happy and willing to answer general questions.

    For any inquiries directly associated to your Payoneer account, please contact Payoneer's Customer Care Support Center.

  • azadnsuazadnsu Member Posts: 1
    I have lost my faith on Payoneer. This happened to me for a second time. I feel helpless because I have no money in hand now. I was fully dependent on Payoneer card, but all of my money gone :(
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