Wirecard issues and Payoneer
Comments
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> @helmsdeep said:
> I think the system might be overloaded because lots of people are trying to withdraw money in a panic.
Assumptions is a bad way in our case. We need to hear clear explanation from Payoneer why we can't withdraw money to bank account. Is it because system overloaded (and they need time to fix it) or we can't withdraw because of blocked Wirecard1 -
Hi! I just registered to ask something but have been using Payoneer for almost 10 years.
What I understand is that if you had more than the card limit (10.000 USD), Payoneer secures only the excess (in my case little more than 100USD) Am I correct or is payoneer securing the whole amount?0 -
> @timo123 said:
> The good news is that the Wirecard fraud seems to be a case of inflated earnings and revenues. In other words they cooked the books big time to look good for investors but NOT likely siphoned customers' money out to some shady offshore account.
>
> If they did then the banks involved would have broken the laws too, concerning seggregated client accounts.
Doesn't make a difference, there are already safeguards to maintain your money (even the act of disrupting service was to avoid any potential siphoning), It's the accessibility to that money that will remain affected as Wirecard has filed for bankruptcy, and is unlikely to recover from that and resume business as usual.0 -
No one can withdraw any funds even if it is above the card limit. I do not trust this company anymore. I do not appreciate what is going on. This smells like a lawsuit. There is no way that millions of people will sit back and allow their funds to be taken away.2
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I think the system might be overloaded because lots of people are trying to withdraw money in a panic.> @Drake7018 said:
> Hi! I just registered to ask something but have been using Payoneer for almost 10 years.
>
> What I understand is that if you had more than the card limit (10.000 USD), Payoneer secures only the excess (in my case little more than 100USD) Am I correct or is payoneer securing the whole amount?
>
>
You are correct (though in my case that limit seems to be over 13,000 USD, even though it used to be 10,000 in the past). As I understand it, the money that is NOT in the card is secured by Payoneer. What's in the card is frozen and "safeguarded" by... someone or something.0 -
So the 10k are lost then.0
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A friend told me this
"since Payoneer is based in the US it might fall under FDIC guidelines
they insure accounts up to $200,000
I wonder if they are trying to file a claim"
And found this on the help page
"How do I know that my funds are safe and secure?
As a fully regulated US company, Payoneer takes financial security and payment regulations very seriously. We are a registered US Money Service Business (MSB) that has been in operation since 2005, and are certified at a PCI Level 1 Data Security Standard.
We strictly adhere to a comprehensive set of global payment regulations in order to ensure the financial security of both Payoneer and our account holders, and have partnerships with banking partners and members of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC).
For further information on all security-related matters, including tips on preventing identity theft and phishing attempts, please visit our Security Center."
So I wonder if that means that our money is insured somehow.1 -
Guys, I do not think this story will end up well. Payoneer has a history of leaving their users without money and attributing all the losses to users.
Just google on outcomes of previous similar issues, for example:
- in 2017, with Firstchoice company - similar to Wirecard AG - people never received their funds
- money stolen from users accounts - Payoneer never refunded completely, just a portion or nothing
- freezing money for various verifications, without any warning.
Payoneer only exists because Upwork recommends them as an option, and people are unaware of Payoneer's previous scams.2 -
This is definitely Payoneer’s fault. Wirecard’s stocks crashed on June 18, so what is going to happen was pretty obvious. Payoneer could simply transfer the money from cards to virtual balance. (Maybe they did but pretend they didn’t so they can grab our money with a perfect excuse?) Or they could just warn their users about the situation.
Now they just say ‘ We believe that cardholder funds are properly safeguarded and that the freeze will be temporary.’
Really? Who cares what you ‘believe’? Such an unprofessional statement. Tell me is it safeguarded or not?
And you ensure we can keep receiving payments without problems. What a relief! But who would trust such company? This is on you and you should find a solution asap or this will be the end of your company as well.1 -
> @badcats said:
> (Maybe they did but pretend they didn’t so they can grab our money with a perfect excuse?)
Exactly! They already did this at list once, in 2017, there was a similar story with Firstchoice that went broke too.0 -
"4. If my Payoneer Prepaid Mastercard Card issued by Wirecard becomes unavailable, what options would I have?
This is a very unlikely outcome, but if it were to happen, you could still get paid into your Payoneer account, and hold funds in your EUR balance. From there you can withdraw your funds to your local bank account, make a payment and utilize other Payoneer services."
In reference to above Faq, my question is how can I receive my KDP royalties from Amazon in future and withdraw them to my local bank account?
Previously, I was using USD Receiving account as payment method. Should I change it to EUR receiving account at amazon or not? Moreover, how we can hold funds in EUR balance?
Prompt response from Payoneer is appreciated!!0 -
@timo123 Why is this good news I'm no banker or stock trader, idgaf about all this, good news for me is when I can withdraw my money.0
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Hi! One good news and one bad ...My husband tried to withdraw from his account and it was successfully withdrew to his bank account,he has received the amount.but I withdrew 103.99$ in this morning and it encountered an error and then my amount disappeared,no withdrawal no payment in the Payoneer account,what should I do? ,ty
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Guys I'm not sure if there's any benefit if we just continue to blame Payoneer. The root cause is Wirecard. I don't think that even Payoneer has full info about the whole situation and what is going to happen in the next days.
The cards are the problem in this moment, but the real problem is where the money is, or is it still there. In the case of not having enough money for both the big investors and small creditors like us, I'm quite sure they will win ... unless we are somehow united. Does anybody have a clue how many of us are there?1 -
I've heard that some people could withdraw some money and someone couldn't this morning.0
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Hi guys, what about future payements? What If I get paid by the company I work for? Will the money be store on my virtual balance? I'm worried they'll got to the prepaid card and I won't be able to access it. Thank you to those who'll answer.0
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Hi,
I believe that in a story that goes so quickly, misunderstandings and impatience can appear, even more when it's about MONEY. So I understand perfectly that it goes in all directions.
I don't think it's all the fault of Payoneer about what happens with our cards. If you have correctly read the reports, FCA acted "WITHOUT ANY NOTICE", despite the fact that Wirecard Card Solution Ltd, an independent subsidiary of the group, is not directly concerned, although negatively affected by the situation.
However, Wirecard Bank seems to continue its operations. This message mentioned on their site is very reassuring. It's right on the home page, impossible to miss it: https://www.wirecardbank.com/
Therefore, I believe that transfers made through the Global Payment Service will continue without problem, until further notice from BaFin.
For the rest, all the other Fintechs, as well as Payoneer, are working to resolve the problem. It is also about their image, their reputation and their business as well. Because yes, there is a lot at stake, far beyond each of us, taken individually.
So let's be patient, let Payoneer do its job. On our side, let's try to hold out until there.4 -
it's weird how I have non attached to card fund but cannot withdrew it to my bank account :0
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@Payoneer Thank you creating a blog post about the issue. I have over 3K in my account and have some questions regarding the issue:
Based on the message I have received from Payoneer, I can only withdraw to my account money that is "above" my card limit. Is the money in my USD Payoneer account connected to my Wirecard card and not Payoneer?
I use my bank account instead of the Wirecard card for withdrawals. Will I be able to withdraw to my account as normal (not being able to do so atm) ?
When you switch to another card service, will my balance be transferred to that service provider?
Thanks0 -
The balance on my account was changed to lower amount and it does not counts with credit card issue. I had a balance of 7377.43$. Now it shows "5000$ on your credit card" So what I understand the 5000$ was freezing but 2377.43$ the amount that was "over limit" the card balance and can be withdraw. But I don't have it. It simply disappeared.
On my wife's account is looks absolutely different. It looks like the system really freezed 5000$ and showing only the rest. My wife had 6545$ on her account. And now it showing 1545$
The system does not give to withdraw anyway but at least I can understand 5000$ freezed and 1545$ over limited and visible.
So two accounts and both show different things:
my account shows "freezed" money that connected to credit card but does not show "over limited" money available to withdraw
my wife's account shows available "over limit" money to withdraw but hided the "freezed" money connected to credit card.
So now the question is very simple and we have two options guys.
Option 1. The system really broken after thousands of customers trying to withdraw, transfer or simply log in - log out every second because of the panic.
Option 2. No any problem with the system and payoneer guys simply mixing up all us.1 -
They are probably doing a full audit before possibly greenlighting. That could take many weeks at least. Even longer if something suspicious is found. Plus this is a multinational investigation...
They take or copy everything from the offices and next Monday the accountants and detectives start shifting through tons of excel sheets and bank accounts.0 -
Same issue here. This morning I opened my account and the total money I had on my balance was reduced to $9750 (card limit I guess) while I had a lot more than that in my balance. What does that mean ?0
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So, let's see if I understand this. We are having our money frozen since Payoneer picked the wrong partner for managing their cards, now they are avoiding responsibilities as the money they put on the card without asking us is managed by Wirecard, not Payoneer.0
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Because of the Current situation with the Wirecard i want to know will i receive payments from my clients and from fiverr and will able to withdraw to my local bank. I already have bank account added to my payoneer account but i always received payments on my Payoneer card and then withdraw to my local bank account which is added in my payoneer account. So do i have to added bank account again or somewhere else in payoneer or i am good to go. Will i able to withdraw to my local bank account the payments that i will receive now, not talking about the money that i have in my payoneer account i am talking about the new payments that i have yet to receive.
Thanks0 -
What I don't understand is that the money on card limit is supposed to be $10.000. Now I only see $9959 on my USD Card the rest of the cards are 0, 0, and $7,11 AND the rest has disappeared (which is a lot more than what I have on my card). Please anyone to explain!?0
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Is anybody else having trouble logging in to Payoneer?
Edit: i managed to login finally. Withdrawal still not successful.0 -
The FCA also froze funds on epayments and no one got their money back. We are screwed.0
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My account also shows "strange" issues. I had $576 transferred to Payoneer yesterday (friday) as I didn't know about this, and that have not added to my balance, though the transaction shows in account statement. So, I think the balance shows the wirecard balance, and the transfer was put on hold. As the system don't have any meaning of showing that situation, it just "disappeared" from the total balance.0
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last update guys..
Wife's account: all money got to be visible ( both card frozen and over limit that in not on the card). My wife was able to withdraw some amount! The status pending but at least it was not error while withdrawing.
My account: not able to login at all. Getting an error that password is wrong.0 -
> @Rookie said:
> Guys I'm not sure if there's any benefit if we just continue to blame Payoneer. The root cause is >Wirecard. I don't think that even Payoneer has full info about the whole situation and what is going >to happen in the next days.
I am a Payoneer customer, not Wirecard. All my blame and lawsuits will go towards Payoneer, my service provider, if I do not recover my money soon. I am NOT a Wirecard customer, nor I know them or their activity. I AM a Payoneer customer, and said that, Payoneer is should make sure my money is safe. It is their responsibility, so no excuses. I demand my money.3 -
> @bryne said:
> last update guys..
>
> Wife's account: all money got to be visible ( both card frozen and over limit that in not on the card). My wife was able to withdraw some amount! The status pending but at least it was not error while withdrawing.
>
> My account: not able to login at all. Getting an error that password is wrong.
I just refreshed my page now it is showing my total balance. Ouff I'm relieved. At least I know it didn't disappear. I think that because of the weekend we can't withdraw funds right?0 -
last update.
Was able to login to my account from a different browser and was able to withdraw all money that over limited of credit card.
My wife also was able to do same.
Now we both have only frozen money that "on credit card". Still a lot of frozen money but at least something...
Hope transfers will come to our banks and would not be reversed in the way ( all status pending now). This our money for June. If we don't get it we simply out of deals.
I would suggest you continue trying to withdraw as well. It took us a half of day but at least with some results ( unless it will be reversed back from pending).1 -
@Rookie said:
Guys I'm not sure if there's any benefit if we just continue to blame Payoneer. The root cause is Wirecard. I don't think that even Payoneer has full info about the whole situation and what is going to happen in the next days.Payoneer did not send a warning when they could. more than a week has gone by since this situation started and not a single heads up was sent to users.
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@bryne said:
last update guys..Wife's account: all money got to be visible ( both card frozen and over limit that in not on the card). My wife was able to withdraw some amount! The status pending but at least it was not error while withdrawing.
My account: not able to login at all. Getting an error that password is wrong.
Do you both have cards?
Some of my coworkers managed to get money but they don't have cards, only account.
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> @VegaAm said:
> (Quote)
> Do you both have cards?
>
> Some of my coworkers managed to get money but they don't have cards, only account.
Yes we both have cards. One on my name and one of my wife.0 -
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I am so mad! I have way over 10k on my account and I can't access any of it. Withdraw to my bank account is not working. Support is not working. Weekend is not an excuse for such a bad communication with your clients!1
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Hope for the best, prepare for the worst guys.
It's frustrating but we need to start thinking ahead. For everybody who charge clients with payoneer, start thinking of other ways (Paypal, Transferwise, bank transfer, etc) because in the worst case scenario, this could Payoneer last days. It was always a risk we had with such an unusual kind of bank.
They are blocking all withdrawals to probably protect themselves from EVERYBODY cleaning up their accounts, which could probably make things worst. It would be the same with any bank.
I also have a family to feed but there isnt much to do but to find alternative ways to do what we need to do, hang in there, hope for the best and wait that new cards can be issued in the next couple of months, because this will probably take a long time to be resolved, be sure about that.0 -
@vino97 said:
Hi,I don't think it's all the fault of Payoneer about what happens with our cards. If you have correctly read the reports, FCA acted "WITHOUT ANY NOTICE", despite the fact that Wirecard Card Solution Ltd, an independent subsidiary of the group, is not directly concerned, although negatively affected by the situation.
However, Wirecard Bank seems to continue its operations. This message mentioned on their site is very reassuring. It's right on the home page, impossible to miss it: https://www.wirecardbank.com/
The message is reassuring only to Wirecard Bank clients. As to Wirecard AG users we remain without assurance as they've filed for bankruptcy.
This is a quote:The German Federal Financial Supervisory Authority (Bundesanstalt für Finanzdienstleistungsaufsicht; BaFin) has already appointed a special representative for Wirecard Bank AG. Since then, approval processes for all payments from Wirecard Bank AG lie within the Bank, no longer at group level. Cash outflows to insolvent Wirecard AG and subsidiaries are no longer permitted.
Payoneer remains at fault for not giving warnings for over a week.
@freesk said:
I am so mad! I have way over 10k on my account and I can't access any of it. Withdraw to my bank account is not working. Support is not working. Weekend is not an excuse for such a bad communication with your clients!I think bank withdrawals will only work to any balance you have in excess of your card balance.
But i can't imagine how users can be OK sending more money to Payoneer when they can't access or withdraw their current balance.0 -
> @VegaAm said:
> (Quote)
> I see. Did she get money from Payoneer?
> I still have an error when trying to withdraw.
We both were able to withdraw money that in excess of our card balance. However as said currently status is pending. So till June 29-30 not possible to know. Let's say: I would not be a big surprising if these transfers will be reversed. Everything is not clear till I don't see on my local bank account.0 -
Hello,
Like everyone else I got the bad news about my Payoneer card being temporarily out of service and I am freaking out! I don't have any other means of withdrawing payments and my bank is not accepted by Payoneer. The card was my only lifeline, and now it's gone for who knows how long!
But I have a suggestion which I hope Payoneer will consider:
Most of us already have another one or more cards from our local banks. For example, I have a Visa Debit card that I use to withdraw funds to from my PayPal account. So, how about Payoneer enable their users to add their own debit/credit card (Visa, MC, etc.) to their Payoneer account and withdraw money directly to their bank's card?
This would be much more convenient than bank withdrawals, which are not available to everyone and some banks deduct high fees for wire transfers.
I hope someone can forward this suggestion to the right people for consideration. And if you do implement it, please don't make a complicated card verification process. Consider an automated verification system similar to that PayPal uses: they make a small charge to the card with a secret code that you then enter on their website and you're ready to go!
Some people live payment to payment and any unexpected delay can have catastrophic consequences. Even if this is just a temporary solution, it'll help a lot.0 -
For God sake, there are already options to withdraw to bank, it is not possible at the moment, so how it would be possible to withdraw to card? Money is not available to Payoneer, there is nothing you can withdraw!1
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I'm talking about future payments.1
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What future payments?? Man this could easily be end of Payoneer too. Who with common sense would continue working with them if we lose our money?1
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I'm getting errors when I try to withdraw to my bank account. Anyone know of any other services I can use, because I don't trust Payoneer anymore.0
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It's obviously in your best interest to stop using payoneer to receive any future payments.
Why would you want to use a service provider who has supposedly frozen your accounts/funds without providing an acceptable explanation or a course of action going forward?I will be receiving my future payments via a different platform, if Payoneer really cares about their image and their customer base they will surely fix this soon. Else they can say goodbye to millions in future revenues.
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i can't withdraw to my bank account from USD. Shown only EURO and GBR. why?
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> @unstopabl3 said:
> It's obviously in your best interest to stop using payoneer to receive any future payments.
> Why would you want to use a service provider who has supposedly frozen your accounts/funds without providing an acceptable explanation or a course of action going forward?
>
> I will be receiving my future payments via a different platform, if Payoneer really cares about their image and their customer base they will surely fix this soon. Else they can say goodbye to millions in future revenues.
Yep! Like, this week we're fine. If this had happened last week my entire family would have been up the proverbial creek because, due to the Current Situation I was the only person earning an income and we really depended on me being able to access my pay every week. The other earner's income isn't reliable so I need to find an alternative that hopefully won't lock my money up before, like, next Friday, or we're all going to have a lovely week of eating noodles.1 -
No one is talking about losing the money yet. All official announcements talk about a temporary suspension of card services. My main concern right now is how long this temporary freeze will last, and no one seems to have an answer to this.
My suggestion is to offer another card withdrawal option for future payments by allowing users to withdraw funds from their account to their own bank credit or debit card, like you do with PayPal.0 -
I had 6000USD and 5000EUR on my account. Since 5000 is the limit for both cards I think I've "lost" 10K in total. I was able to file a withdraw to my bank account for $1000 (the excessive part) and the current status of the transaction is "Completed". So will be waiting 2-3 business day and I hope to see this piece on my bank account.
I think our prepaid cards are waste now, they are not going to get back online whatsoever. However, I do hope the frozen funds will be moved back to Payoneer and we will be able to withdraw to our local banks.
Anyway, I think Payoneer will have to limit this massive drain somehow to stop loosing of customers, possibly they will introduce some monthly limit for withdrawals. If they were transparent from day zero, provided us with on-time notifications they would have a chance to not lose me as a client. But I don't see any transparency and I don't feel that Payoneer is supporting any of us as it should be.8 -
@AndrewBy said:
I had 6000USD and 5000EUR on my account. Since 5000 is the limit for both cards I think I've "lost" 10K in total. I was able to file a withdraw to my bank account for $1000 (the excessive part) and the current status of the transaction is "Completed". So will be waiting 2-3 business day and I hope to see this piece on my bank account.
I think our prepaid cards are waste now, they are not going to get back online whatsoever. However, I do hope the frozen funds will be moved back to Payoneer and we will be able to withdraw to our local banks.
Anyway, I think Payoneer will have to limit this massive drain somehow to stop loosing of customers, possibly they will introduce some monthly limit for withdrawals. If they were transparent from day zero, provided us with on-time notifications they would have a chance to not lose me as a client. But I don't see any transparency and I don't feel that Payoneer is supporting any of us as it should be.Agreed, I think back to their response E-mail following Covid-19, parading solidarity and willingness to aid during this time. This is their chance to show it wasn't just words.
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We can't withdraw money to local bank accounts for now?
I am getting an automatic payment from Upwork tomorrow to my Payoneer account, what should I do? I can't cancel it0 -
What future payments? Did you check platforms you were using Payoneer with? Everyone stopped using Payoneer! I got money on card this morning, after everything being frozen, and I can not withdraw it now. Do you understand that this is HUGE problem, no transactions will work whatever Payoneer says. When you have problems like this first thing bank do they stop transactions. You expect them to think about something in future when they do not know if they will survive this?!
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@Skydiox said:
We can't withdraw money to local bank accounts for now?
I am getting an automatic payment from Upwork tomorrow to my Payoneer account, what should I do? I can't cancel itI'd try to contact Upwork and demand the payment be halted or sent to other payment providers. Some people were successful in withdrawing the money they had in excess to their card balance (new money), but others report issues doing so.
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I have been with Payoneer for almost 10 years. Almost never had any problems. I am shocked at what they did! The LEAST they could do is warn us about this shit. I mean, why am I supposed to watch the news and see whatever the hell is going on with Wirecard? That's not my damn job! Only sending us an email AFTER shit hit the fat is not caring for your customers. You really blew it Payoneer!4
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> @abdelrahmanm said:
> (Quote)
> I'd try to contact Upwork and demand the payment be halted or sent to other payment providers. Some people were successful in withdrawing the money they had in excess to their card balance (new money), but others report issues doing so.
Please If you found a solution on how to delay or stop the payment to Payoneer just let me know0 -
Anyone else using Payoneer as their only withdrawal method from PayPal? How can I withdraw from PayPal if the Payoneer card isn't working anymore now??? Thanks a lot!0
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> @Skydiox said:
> Please If you found a solution on how to delay or stop the payment to Payoneer just let me know
Do you have some email where i can reply to you?0 -
@Skydiox said:
@abdelrahmanm said:
(Quote)
I'd try to contact Upwork and demand the payment be halted or sent to other payment providers. Some people were successful in withdrawing the money they had in excess to their card balance (new money), but others report issues doing so.Please If you found a solution on how to delay or stop the payment to Payoneer just let me know
I'm not an Upwork user, so i can't advise you on how to halt it, you should contact them, they already have a sense of the ongoing situation.
@ChloePrice said:
Anyone else using Payoneer as their only withdrawal method from PayPal? How can I withdraw from PayPal if the Payoneer card isn't working anymore now??? Thanks a lot!If you're a Paypal user, i think you might have other options of withdrawal depending on where you live (using other cards / US bank account).
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Did you read the official announcement email sent by Payoneer? Here's a direct quote:
"Any future payments that you receive from marketplaces, platforms and clients will not be affected by the freeze. You can sign in to view your funds, and you can now add your bank account for withdrawal of your future incoming payments."
Only card services and current card funds, which are provided by Wirecard UK, are temporarily frozen.0 -
> @ChloePrice said:
> Anyone else using Payoneer as their only withdrawal method from PayPal? How can I withdraw from PayPal if the Payoneer card isn't working anymore now???
You are lucky because I was never able to do that. What I do and you can is to withdraw but to a "normal" bank account in your country0 -
Totally agree with @Lovrata ! It's our savings what we are speaking here. The technical support is not available during the weekend, even when this is an obvious important issue.
@Leonid_Payoneer please, don't send us automatic replies with copied/pasted texts about the ISSUE, just answer the questions with SOLUTIONS and action plan from Payoneer.
please support asap.0 -
Do you read what I am telling you? I got money this morning, after freezing, and I can not whitdraw it.
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Guys, forget about the money you have in your accounts. How it is possible the funds in your account are freezed, but you can use the money you receive from now on? I don't buy that S...t. It is such a cliché.... Bank files insolvency, takes everybody's money, then that same Bank closes ( and then reopens with another name) and that is how Financial enterprises, like banks f...s everybody up. I wonder... if my money is in a Payoneer account (not a card), Why can't I transfer the money? Answer: Payoneer is involved too.0
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It is assumed that the balances are deposited in a bank in the United States (First Century Bank), they would have no problems and if there were Mastercard's they would have to be responsible for solving by supporting the balance of their cards, since Wirecard is the intermediary between which you deposit and Mastercard , the balance is the responsibility of the issuer of Mastercard's or Visa cards. at the time it is deposited.
In Payonner's case, the problem will affect future payments, but the solution would be to continue processing payments without the Wirecard intermediary.
The problem is complex but Wirecard is not necessary for the payonner to continue operating this intermediary towards the commission for the use of the services out of cost and to have to divide the profits between P + Wirecard + M.
At the moment, we have to wait for the North American banks to provide a solution or at least to rule (First Century Bank).
Before we clients directly sue Payonner and Mastercard
It should be noted the responsibility that Mastercard's and First Century Bank have in all this, something that is little talked about but is a reality.2 -
> @dleyton said:
> > @ChloePrice said:
> > Anyone else using Payoneer as their only withdrawal method from PayPal? How can I withdraw from PayPal if the Payoneer card isn't working anymore now???
>
> You are lucky because I was never able to do that. What I do and you can is to withdraw but to a "normal" bank account in your country
I wish I could, but I don't have that option where I live. That's why I used Payoneer in the first place. Now that I can't withdraw to Payoneer, I don't know what to do!0 -
it is necessary to make clear the responsibility they have regarding the support of the funds by
Mastercard's and First Century Bank
The problems with Wirecard do not have to be an excuse for the money in our accounts to disappear.0 -
Payoneer you have known all the time what is the situation with Wirecard because you work with them closely. You have known that the accounts/Mastercard will be frozen. You have known everything and have done BIG FAT NOTHING to protect your customers/users!
If the Mastercard is frozen why we can't withdraw the money? The money is not on the card it is in your possession on your virtual account.
If you think that people will trust you after this, then you are living in a fairy tale.
If you have just warned the people in time everything would be OK. If you have sent an email to users saying you can't use MasterCard but you can withdraw the money at any time and still get payments on your Payoneer account everything would be fine and people would still trust you.
But after this....
Payoneer people who run your business are not looking in the future they are not looking at all am afraid.
This is such a shame for you Payoneer. This was a great opportunity for you to solve this situation without any hassle but you have proven that your customers are not in the first place at all. You have forgotten from whom you are taking the money and from whom you are making the living.
This is not the way to run a business this is only a strait way to disaster.
Payoneer please take the calculator and calculate how many people will go to your opponent PayPayl or any other agency and how many customers you will lose. Then multiplay all the fees and everything that you charge and you will get the number how much you will lose.
Either you are so rich that you can handle this without any hesitation or you are blind and don't know what are you doing. Either way, this situation that you have created is the nail in your coffin.3 -
it is necessary to make clear the responsibility they have regarding the support of the funds by
Mastercard's and First Century Bank
The problems with Wirecard do not have to be an excuse for the money in our accounts to disappear.1 -
> @webworkman said:
> Do you read what I am telling you? I got money this morning, after freezing, and I can not whitdraw it.
My guess is that if the payment is sent to your card account then it gets frozen, but if it's sent to your virtual balance then you should be able to withdraw it. The question is; how do you have incoming payments sent to your virtual balance (USD/EUR/GBP) instead of being automatically added to the card balance?0 -
They are using that excuse to keep your money.0
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I was hopping to swtich paypal with payoneer for my ecom activities. But from the day i made an account i am only hearing Bad things and negative feedbacks from everyone. Whitout forgetting that i have made a demand for a Fedral saving bank account and i gave them every document they asked for and still didnt receive anything after 12 DAYS (they said i have to wait 3-5days on the LIve chat).0
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@MohMort said:
Personally, as soon as this is over am switching to another platform.
I can't have my livelihood threatened like that ever again if this isn't solved in the next couple of days, I've bills to pay.And yes, agreeing with Lovrata the email you sent us is too late too useless, almost seems intentional, doesn't it?
Couple of days??? Seriously??? please google about Epayments situation. FCA froze their accounts on Feb 11 2020 and today is June 27 2020. No solution and Eapyments and FCA just ignored all my official requests. They promised something with their stupid generic templates and that is all... Our money already stolen and someone bought a yacht and we just need to brace our self and keep working.
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@abdelrahmanm said:
These are the potential outcomes:
1- Service continuity using old cards (unlikely). Since the cards are tied to wirecard, the FCA will rely on the safeguards in place to help affected users, and thus will not consider some financial sorcery to restore original card functionality. Given that wirecard books are missing 2 Billion dollars. The possibility of allowing transactions from within this company is extremely minuscule.2- service continuity using newer cards (more likely). We'll have to wait on payoneer to make the required arrangements, and move their service to a new card issuer. If the halt in service does not impact payoneer iteslf, then funds will probably remain un-affected and will be transferred to newer cards when ready. This is equivalent to starting from scratch and might affect service availability, terms of service, and extend card issuance time.
3- service continuity without reimbursing users. I know we've been re-assured many times that "money is safe and secure". But the facts remain that a- we did NOT receive warnings prior to denial of service which is the main trait of a shady organization. b- past promises to maintain card functionality were not kept.
Scenario # 3 is the most realistic. Google Epayments case. Almost 6 months passed and only bla bla bla
And the same scheme was used. FCA blocked funds without any notifications.0 -
@topfreelancerja said:
@emilmatei_ro said:
The silence indicates that Payoneer doesn't seem to have a risk response even if the Wirecard suspicions have been there for a while. If that's the case, we're asking questions that cannot be answered right now and until they get a partnership with a new company to issue new cards (millions of cards maybe) they can't make an announcement that's more than the standard bs.
Still, we're waiting and started looking for alternatives, so Payoneer will likely lose some of the clients as time goes by without communication!I do not think so at all. The silence just means that they are working on a solution. They did indicate in their blog post that they are working with other issuers for a solution. Until they have a solution, they cannot say much. The customer service agents may have as much information as we do and can only disperse the information they are given. The people with the answers will not directly interact with any of us. I assume that we will need new cards but I cannot imagine the time it will take to sort that out. So far funds are frozen and Wirecard is under investigation. I am not sure if that may mean we need to wait until that investigation is over. An agent told me when I called today that an audit is being done. Lets us hope and pray that by next week we will have a new card in the mail to us 🤞
Please google Epayments case. They have also been working on a solution. Since Feb 11 2020
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Payoneer, how could that be that excess money is available for withdrawl, and not excess money is not? Isn't all the money on your virtual account so it should be available for withdrawl at least to a bank account?
And does your reaction mean (not warning about the issue with the card partner) that I should stop using your services since you DON'T FUCKING CARE about your reputation and customers? I know that there is always risk involved when using such shady companies as yours but I hoped that there are people that still strive to provide good services for customers. Probably I hoped in vain.1 -
This is hard to believe but seems quite likely. The worst thing is these so called regulators just suspend these services without thinking about the repercussions to genuine freelancers or business owners. Why did they even give them multinational licenses to operate and screw consumers like this? It means even the regulators are involved in this scam!
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@topfreelancerja said:
@webworkman said:
Love the phrase, 'we believe' ... wtf that means that we can left with no money???Yes, that is very troublesome. So that means that if the funds are not secured as they believe we will lose our mon> @MintMist said:
Is there any similar scenarios with banks insolvency? Just to see what usually happened in similar situations and what was the result. Because right now we can do nothing - even can't open bank account to try to withdraw money, because of the weekend (when banks do not work)The situation was very similar (but only not bank insolvency but anti money laundering was involved) FCA blocked Epayments on Feb 11 2020. 6 months passed. Funds are still frozen. No access and no any meaningful replies from Epayments
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The UK FCA blindsided everybody with this order. They absolutely hate prepaid card companies and any half-assed excuse is enough for shutdown. The UK based daughter company is not even under suspicious of anything illegal but they did not care.2
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Think about this for a minute. This is a devastating blow especially to smaller prepaid card providers. Total knockout blow. Their revenues started collapsing yesterday.
The FCA does not give a shit about "protecting" the account holders. Without fees generated from card usage these companies will go bankrupt soon. How is that "protecting"?!3 -
Depends on how you use it. If you use it from platform like Uprwork and you connected you card it will be on card. If you use ACH payment directly to Bank of America (in case of USD) than it is on ur virtual account. It all depends.
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They are definitelly involved. That is why the did not advised us on thursday... so we did not have time to withdraw our funds and they could keept them.... Who can help us now? This scammers always get away with it. I hope to be mistaken... but I doubt it.0
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@timo123 said:
The UK FCA blindsided everybody with this order. They absolutely hate prepaid card companies and any half-assed excuse is enough for shutdown. The UK based daughter company is not even under suspicious of anything illegal but they did not care.Sometimes i wonder if Wirecard operations could've been maintained whilst being investigated to protect people's interests. I get that a whopping $2 Billion missing is enough to get law enforcers batons out but it has been accumulating for 10 years! It didn't just happen out of nowhere.
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> @abdelrahmanm said:
> (Quote)
> Sometimes i wonder if Wirecard operations could've been maintained whilst being investigated to protect people's interests. I get that a whopping $2 Billion missing is enough to get law enforcers batons out but it has been accumulating for 10 years! It didn't just happen out of nowhere.
It is not a question of actual missing funds but missing inflated funds that were not there in the first place. I doubt they could siphon off from accounts year after year without anybody blowing the whistle or without a major liquidity crisis.0 -
Guys, I'm as pi#sed off as the next one with the current situation and Payoneer retaining our funds. It's outrageous and unacceptable. However, think of what would have happened if they had told us a week ago that Wirecard was about to collapse. Millions of users worldwide withdrawing all their funds at once, in matter of hours. That would have definitely led to a different type of crisis.
Of course I'd like to count on my hard earned money right away, but right now there's pretty much nothing we can do but hope for the best.
As for all my future transactions, there's no way in this world I'll do them via Payoneer in the near future. Sorry; the service and support has always been top notch in my experience but given the current scenario, I just can't afford the risk.1 -
They did not specify this in their email. The statement sounds general regarding "any" future payments. Maybe they can simply redirect card payments to the virtual account. I don't know all the technical details, but they can enable companies to transfer payments to the user's balance instead of the card account, which we can then withdraw (as per my suggestion) to our own bank card instead of Payoneer's.
And if they manage to resolve the issue with their card payments anytime soon, it won't hurt to have other withdrawal options anyway.0 -
Of course. But I guess it is step by step, will see.
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This problem is that there's nothing to withdraw, there's no actual money behind the numbers on your screen. UpWork sends your money to Wirecard prepaid card and it vanishes into thin air in a second. Why? Because there's no working business model in Wirecard, their services are too cheap to be profitable. You cannot process the payment and charge so little for it. This is what FT inversitagors were suggesting earlier this year and they were called liers and sued. So there's no any technical problem. The problem is that there's no money in the first place. It was spent to process other peoples payments. It was't even stolen, so you can't trace it and get back. it's simply not there anymore.
The only solution here is that Payoneer asks for a loan some third-party institution and pays out its debt which is very unlikely because people are freeking out and run away like crazy switching to other services, so the future for Payoneer itself isn't very bright.
Very similar story happened a couple of years back in Ukraine -- the country where I come from -- with the largest bank. There was a fraud and $2b went missing which means 20 million customers -- predominantly from the most vulnarable low-income communities -- were facing death from hunger resulting in a collapse of the state. The government came up with the solution to nationalize the bank and cut lots of social programs taking money from there to re-finance the bank. I highly doubt that this is what might be happening right now, that Payoneer tries to buy some time, while making blablabla statesment and searching vigorously for the loan. What would be happening is that Payoneer will send another row of cheerful emails and one day simple go silent for good. This is a hard pill to swallow, but the sooner you'll get it right, the sooner you would be able to move on and turn the page. Your money is gone, no matter what you see on your screen.0 -
> @BrunoB said:
> Guys, I'm as pi#sed off as the next one with the current situation and Payoneer retaining our funds. It's outrageous and unacceptable. However, think of what would have happened if they had told us a week ago that Wirecard was about to collapse. Millions of users worldwide withdrawing all their funds at once, in matter of hours. That would have definitely led to a different type of crisis.
>
The crisis would have impacted them, not us (they already have plenty of money to survive... we have to work really hard).1 -
> @pcam said:
> The crisis would have impacted them, not us (they already have plenty of money to survive... we have to work really hard).
>
Totally agree and, believe me, I wish it was the case! Though, is there enough real cash flow to face a SUPER MASSIVE bank run? Would it, in the end, be better for all of us users and freelancers? Of course we are all on the same boat and we need to pay the bills next week and not when "the situation stabilizes" but right now, hoping this gets solved ASAP is pretty much the only alternative.0 -
I sure hope it's not as bad and gloomy as the above post suggests!
BTW, there's a difference between Wirecard AG and Wirecard Card Solutions Limited (the UK subsidiary that handles Payoneer's prepaid cards). The latter seems less affected by the scandal, but who knows what's at stake at this point?
And regarding future payments, here's a quote from the official blog:
"Until your card is unfrozen, pending payments will go to your Payoneer account, where they will land in your virtual currency balance and can be withdrawn to your local bank account."
This sounds good, but we need other withdrawal options please!0 -
@Leonid_Payoneer can you explain this please?
———————
22. FUNDS PROTECTION
The Prepaid MasterCard is an electronic money product and although it is a product regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority, it is not covered by the Financial Services Compensation Scheme. No other compensation scheme exists to cover the losses claimed in connection with the Prepaid MasterCard. This means that in the event that Wirecard Card Solutions Ltd becomes insolvent Your funds may become valueless and unusable and as a result You may lose Your money. However, as a responsible e-money issuer, Wirecard Card Solutions Limited ensures that once it has received Your funds they are deposited in a secure account, specifically for the purpose of redeeming transactions made by Your Prepaid Card. In the event that Wirecard Card Solutions Limited becomes insolvent funds that You have loaded which have arrived with and been deposited by Wirecard Card Solutions Limited are protected against the claims made by creditors.
So, payoneer doesn’t protect anything in this situation.
————-
Guys, I think we will loose definetly our money. I’ve changed the platform to PayPal. I’m absolutely disappointed 😓0 -
Don't be surprised if the whole payoneer.com site becomes suddenly 4041
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New update to their blog post
We understand that the developing situation with Wirecard has created a lot of concern and challenges for Payoneer Prepaid Mastercard® card users. We have been assured by the FCA that the freeze was put in place to ensure the protection of all cardholders’ funds. We have also been given repeated reassurances that all funds are properly safeguarded. Progress is being made to lift the freeze, and we will continue to update you as soon as more information is available. This situation has impacted the customers of many companies, and we believe that it will be resolved soon.
In the meantime, incoming funds to Payoneer users can be withdrawn to bank accounts or held in a Payoneer Account which remains safe and secure. All funds held in Payoneer are fully liquid and available and held in global leading banks. Our company is strong and stable, and committed to safeguarding our customers’ funds in accordance with all relevant global regulations.
We know that our customers depend on these funds, and that this freeze has created hardships for many people. We have enabled alternative solutions for payment withdrawal and are working to address any technical issues that have come up, and to help our customers in any way we can.”
– Scott Galit, CEO of Payoneer
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@abdelrahmanm said:
New update to their blog postWe have also been given repeated reassurances that all funds are properly safeguarded.
Oh yeah?! Here is answer from another company (ANNA money) which also can't access money. They explained why why they didn't aware customrs week before:
We were aware of the situation with Wirecard AG in Germany, however we were repeatedly reassured by Wirecard Card Solutions that this would not affect operations in the UK.
So Wirecard assured that it won't happen. Few days later it happened.
Talk is cheap
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I hope Payoneer shows some responsibility and consideration to us all and get our money back. Good luck to us all!1
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> @Lovrata said:
> Nice work Payoneer :/ You could not send out emails to the Mastercard users to warn them that they need to withdraw their money?! Is that so hard?! In this time of technology!
> No, because you would have had time to withdraw all your money and they wouldn't have time to stole it.
> People are depending on you and you are acting like this?! In this time when pandemic is in full blow?!
> They don't give s...t. It's money we are talking about...
> Shame on you Payoneer, shame on you!
>
> My salary (and others people also) is on this account I can't buy food or pay bills thanks to you!
> Right now they must be thinking.... bad luck (while they are using your money).
> How are you going to explain to people that they can't buy food because some idiots did not think to warn them to withdraw their money?!
> It is all virtual (it does not physically exists), so there is no one to complain to.... is there?
> I strongly believe that the CEO and management of Wirecard will not be affected by this, they will get their salary and they will not get their accounts frozen.
Of course they will get their salary!!! From the money frozen in your account.0 -
@MintMist said:
Oh yeah?! Here is answer from another company (ANNA money) which also can't access money. They explained why why they didn't aware customrs week before:We were aware of the situation with Wirecard AG in Germany, however we were repeatedly reassured by Wirecard Card Solutions that this would not affect operations in the UK.
So Wirecard assured that it won't happen. Few days later it happened.
Talk is cheap
I'm more interested in this paragraph:
WCSL is working closely with the FCA to address their concerns so that the temporary freeze can be lifted as soon as possible, and your card can continue to operate as before.
With the CEO arrested, what kind of cooperative work is being done to bring back cards. Being investigated doesn't qualify as "working closely" with authorities.
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Are any of the frozen account holders residing in the US here?
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> @pcam said:
> > @Lovrata said:
> > Nice work Payoneer :/ You could not send out emails to the Mastercard users to warn them that they need to withdraw their money?! Is that so hard?! In this time of technology!
>
> > No, because you would have had time to withdraw all your money and they wouldn't have time to stole it.
>
> > People are depending on you and you are acting like this?! In this time when pandemic is in full blow?!
> > They don't give s...t. It's money we are talking about...
>
> > Shame on you Payoneer, shame on you!
> >
> > My salary (and others people also) is on this account I can't buy food or pay bills thanks to you!
> > Right now they must be thinking.... bad luck (while they are using your money).
>
> > How are you going to explain to people that they can't buy food because some idiots did not think to warn them to withdraw their money?!
> > It is all virtual (it does not physically exists), so there is no one to complain to.... is there?
>
> > I strongly believe that the CEO and management of Wirecard will not be affected by this, they will get their salary and they will not get their accounts frozen.
> Of course they will get their salary!!! From the money frozen in your account.
>
>
Now, what is the point of quoting my post? Like you said something that we already don't know?!
Say something with your words, don't quote someone else's and being a wiseguy.0
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